Thursday, November 10, 2005
On Torture
I haven’t talked much about torture here because I came to the conclusion a long time ago that my view of what constitutes torture doesn’t completely match the way others view the topic. Looks like Derbyshire just came to that same conclusion:
After saying my piece & reading the comeback emails, I realized that to a great many folk, “torture” does not refer to the pulling out of fingernails, beating senseless with rubber truncheons, having your infant daughter raped before your eyes, or any of the other things I had always supposed it meant. To a lot of people, it embraces the merest roughness or unkindness—a shove, a kick, a slap, sleep deprivation, and so on.
I’m sorry, but that ain’t torture, and a person who says it is is either (a) the product of a very sheltered life, or (b) just looking for any old reason to say how horrid GWB and his administration are.
And that’s what I have to say about torture.
Yeah, that’s about the view of it, isn’t it? In my world view, torture is more than merely being a bit mean and rough.
I’m wondering whether that leaves me outside the societal norm or if most people don’t understand that when critics accuse Americans of torture, they aren’t talking about the third world despot’s version involving what I would consider truly inhumane treatment. No professional rapists or surgeons devoted to removing body parts on our payrolls.
But does that average American understand the distinction in the current debate? Keep in mind, 24 is a wildly successful show, but the things that Jack does on a regular basis to extract information from terrorists are often a few steps beyond what someone like Andrew Sullivan seems to be thinking of when he cries “torture.” It seems to me that the people who cheer Jack aren’t going to get squeamish over our intelligence services’ use of intimidation and aggressive persuasion.
There are dividing lines, of course, and I still suggest being very open about what is and is not acceptable. What some people think of as torture, though, wouldn’t even qualify as a bad childhood in my book.
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Comments & Trackbacks
Except for the band Styx. Apparently, 9 out of 10 frequent Resurrection Song commenters consider listening to Styx songs to be torture.
There is more than a little bit of truth to that statement…
Is humiliation “torture”? As in, the alleged Abu Ghraib “torture”?
If humiliation is torture, you are all invited to make the obvious joke about my life to this point…
"Apparently, 9 out of 10 frequent Resurrection Song commenters consider listening to Styx songs to be torture.”
And yet again, I’m in the top decile (not that anyone is surprised, of course). Sometimes it’s hard being me, but I console myself with the thought that it’s so much harder for everyone else*.
8-)
* Yes, I saw the double meaning. Top decile, remember?
You mean...you mean...? I’m...not alone in my Styx fandom?
Huh.
You like the entire discology, or just since Tommy Shaw joined? I like everything, myself.
I also think that Paradise Theater was the last decent album before Dennis DeYoung went insane, although the hints of his descent into madness appeared as far back as Pieces of Eight…
I like the Curulewski stuff too. The real sign of a Styx fan, though, is whether you can identify the significance of the “Plexiglass Toilet Choir”.
(Hmm, I might have to rethink that “top decile” thing.)
TW: study45
That reminds me, I need to make a trip to the range soon.
Okay, you got me on that one.
But J.C.? Yeah:
“You’d Better Ask” is a great song, everyone should get a chance to hear it. “A Day” is coolness personified. “Mother Dear” is good, too. “Krakatoa”? Eh.
I really like old J.Y. stuff: “Rock N Roll Feeling”, “Winner Take All”, “Midnight Ride"…
“Born for Adventure” is also a song everyone should hear at least once, too.
The Plexiglass Toilet Choir is credited with singing “Don’t Sit Down on the Plexiglass Toilet”. IIRC, it’s the last song on side one of The Serpent is Rising, but I may have that wrong.
FWIW, the first concert I ever went to was a Styx concert in St. Louis. At the time I was skeptical of spending $10 (?) to see them in person once when I could spend the same amount to buy an album and listen to it as much as I wanted.
On Torture
If only my creative juices were flowing better than molasses in January, I could turn that into a line in an epic poem called “The Week After Fitzmas.”
“On torture! On stupid! On Donna Dixon!”
...if only my creative juices were flowing better than molasses in January.