Thanks, Mr. Z.  And as I just wrote to you—if all else fails, we’ll throw a party and DRINK.

We’ll drink and we’ll plot.

Perhaps after this election there will be room for a minarchist third party…

"I aim to misbehave.”

Gonna be my campaign slogan.

I shoulda thought of that…

"Let’s go be bad guys.”

That’s it: I’m watching Serenity this weekend.

Darling girl will be happy.

Heck.  I’ll join you.  Well, at least I can watch Firefly (I have the series on DVD).

"BAI-tuo, AN-jing-eedyen!”

Not that I’ve seen that much of it, but I know where to find this. Maybe I’ll have to watch some this weekend, too.

That’s a leap

Well, if the Obama thugs performance hounding Joe the Plumber is any clue, dissent will not be tolerated in Obama’s Paradise.

Robin R,
Obama’s thugs? Where did that come from? I guess those at Palin’s rally in Florida last week, were just innocent angles when shouting “Kill him.” Sounded like something from the 50’s to me.

Okay, there are some things that McCain supporters have done that I’m not proud of (although the “kill him” story is questionable), but I would definitely agree that some supporters of Obama’s have been acting like thugs. In the particular case of Joe the Plumber, keep in mind that he’s being scrutinized heavily in public even though he never sought the spotlight, never pushed himself into the political arena, and merely had the temerity to ask a pointed question when Obama walked up to him in his neighborhood.

When you run for an office or seek the limelight, you have to expect scrutiny. I’m sure that Joe the Plumber is a little surprised by the close look that he’s gotten in national media since asking a question about tax policy.

And we could play a game of who can come up with the most horrendous story about a candidate’s supporters (like the guy who got shot for wearing an Obama t-shirt, a McCain supporter being attacked in NY, or another man’s vote being stolen by an Obama supporter--the truth is that passionate supporters sometimes behave irresponsibly. In the case of the mainstream media and Joe the Plumber, I think that the media has behaved irresponsibly. That seems like bullying to me.

While in conversation I won’t hold back from criticizing my own party for their misdeeds, so I definitely won’t hold back on critiques of the opposition.

I still wouldn’t count these as Obama’s thugs. Nothing was said as to him being present when these happened. Why wouldn’t Joe the Plumber come into the limelight since both candidates continually mentioned him. Did Robin R. mean the press? I have seen blogger’s objection mostly about his mischaracteration as an average Joe, which on first impression one think of their last plumbers bill, then one finds out that he is average after all. I am not one to think of Barack Obama as a saint and have never resorted to calling McCain anything but old.

I am not playing the game of who’s has the most horrendous story, but I am old enough to sense when the comments reak of the Southern Stategy. I hadn’t heard any candidate called the names Obama has or heard of any candidate having to defend his American identity. This is more than misrepresenting the other candidate’s ideas, voting history or negative ads, this not rumor mongering; it is fear mongering. Not all those “good old boys” are dead and it doesn’t take much to rile them and my memory is not short, so when I hear the expression “Obama’s thugs” it is more than disrespectful, it is inclined to make him a target. It implies he’s a forthright criminal with a posse. It gets in the language and in the psyche. In your world you may shrug your shoulders, but in my world I shudder.

John Lewis was not whistling in the wind.

My comment here was a response to Robin R. not to challenge any political beliefs, it pissed me off, I’ve seen too many flame throwers.

“..when I hear the expression “Obama’s thugs” it is more than disrespectful, it is inclined to make him a target.”

First of all, yes it’s disrespectful, it’s also accurate.  I object to the victim card being played on any criticism of Obama.

I’m also surprised to see you say both “John Lewis was not whistling in the wind” and defending Obama by saying “Nothing was said as to him being present when these happened.” McCain has never pushed the racist rumors swirling around Obama and has notably swatted down those rumors when the opportunity has arisen (For example, the old lady at his rally who thought Obama was an Arab, and an incident much earlier in the campaign where McCain objected to the introductory speaker emphasizing Obama’s middle name.  Contrast that with Hillary Clinton’s mealy-mouthed statement that Obama wasn’t a Muslim “as far as I know”.) John Lewis was way out of line to describe McCain as spreading hate.

But, to get back to your first comment, it’s not a “leap”.  First, there’s the actions of Obama’s campaign itself, (these are definitely people who could rightly be described as Obama’s thugs.) They threatened using the state’s power against TV stations that ran an NRA ad (“For the sake of both FCC licensing requirements and the public interest, your station should refuse to continue to air this advertisement.”) Then there’s the treatment they gave Stanley Kurtz.  And the Missouri ("Ministry of") Truth Squad.  I’m surprised that the Dems managed to come up with a nominee that worse on First Amendment rights than John McCain.  Over and over again the Obama campaign has shown they are willing to use the power of the state to silence critics.

Obama personally mocked Joe the Plumber, even though the problem was Obama’s answer, not the plumber’s question:

<object width="425" height="344"></param></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Sqis9mRcWl4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

When you add in Obama’s “brush off” of HRC, his “middle finger nose scratch” directed at HRC, his “you’re likable enough” to HRC, the “bitter/cling” comment toward non-urban conservative voters, the picture becomes clear: Obama is of a piece with the City of the Big Shoulders, thugs and all.

since I can’t embed, I’ll just provide the link instead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqis9mRcWl4

You both seem to be thinned skinned victims yourselves and can Robin R. not speak for himself. The middle finger nose scratch. Give me a break!

VRB,
you apparently didn’t watch the video.  The reaction of the crowd makes it clear what meaning was intended.

Also, your use of a cheap shot instead of refuting points does your side no credit.

I did see the video some time ago. Wondered why Clinton’s supporters were hysterical. Must not take much to dis white folk.

I’ve been taking a few days off while I prepare for my two upcoming trips, so I’m not going to respond fully to this comment until tomorrow except to say that I’m quite surprised that you would say this.

Just what is my side?

I don’t refute specific arguments unless I can verify the the premises and can do the proper research to give sources in rebuttal. Being pissed off at a comment isn’t an intellectual exercise anyway, so I make no attempt to make it rational.

So much of what I hear is stuff that’s been thrown against the wall and seen if if would stick. I would suggest that there are several thousands of campaign workers and any misbehavior on their part may not be sanctioned by the campaign, I have no way of knowing, but I do know what came out of Robin R.’s mouth. The news articles the David referenced, only prove that there are people will to do anything to get a candidate elected. That patient is doing the right thing to report it. I have to report poll workers that were not Republican, because they didn’t know what they were doing. The Vote is something I highly value. Although you probably think I have no values or scruples.

David,
Let me say that I am a contemporary of John Lewis, and have heard every nuanced voice of the nature of those folks. If it walks like a duck…

That sounds like a vague accusation of racism, although I’m not sure if it is aimed at Robin, Nathan, or DF. If it is, not only do I not see any racism in their words here, but I have never seen any sign of racism in any of them. I know them all personally. Robin helped me with advice recently when I was in need and is a guy that I’ve seen on any number of occasions over the last four or five years. DF is a guy who has had dinner and gone to movies with be an my fiance--and would still be one of our close friends if he hadn’t moved off to another city some time ago. Nathan stayed in our house a few years back and has been a regular commenter and correspondent of mine over the last half decade.

They are all good people, they are all friends, and none of them deserve to be accused of raciem. Never have I seen or heard any of them act in a racist way, never have they given me any indication that they use race as a measuring stick of the capabilities of a man or a woman.

I’ve had my disagreements with each of them and I imagine I’ll have more in the future, but race wouldn’t be on that list.

Perhaps I’m not quite understanding what you’re saying. If I’m reading that last comment correctly, apologies would seem to be in order. If I’m not reading it correctly, then I’ll offer up my own apologies.

I have no problem calling someone a racist. I did call Robin R. a flamethrower.

I also think the use of language can be dangerous and as I said

“Not all those “good old boys” are dead and it doesn’t take much to rile them and my memory is not short, so when I hear the expression “Obama’s thugs” it is more than disrespectful, it is inclined to make him a target. It implies he’s a forthright criminal with a posse. It gets in the language and in the psyche. In your world you may shrug your shoulders, but in my world I shudder.”

Then Nathan of Brainfertilizer and dorkafork defend the language. Why was not my point of view respected. Every one now sanctifies Martin Luther King Jr., but I still remember the time he was shot dead and I also remember a white southern coworker saying she was glad Kennedy had been shot. The rhetoric of the times was volatile. This is my and Lewis’ generation. Even John McCain has recognized that some of his constituents have taken campaign rhetoric too far.

Nice strawman argument. Nothing I said could be construed to be eliciting attacks on Obama.

Believe what you want, but I refuse to play along with your fantasies.

You can smuggly smile and pat yourself on your back. You have won the day,

Listen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trkFgIMC-Ks

If I have to make it explicit, the only attacks I think Obama should be a target of are verbal/political attacks.  If the people I’m referring to don’t want to be called thugs, they shouldn’t act like it.  If I can’t critize them over that…

VRB, basically Obama’s supporters are behaving as thugs.  Their tactic against people is intimidation.  There was more examination of Joe the Plumber’s tax problems than there has been of Al Franken’s tax problems as an example. 

That’s why t-shirts that read “I’m Joe the Plumber” are selling out.  Because the message of intimidation is explicit.  Criticize The One and you will be made an example of.  Legal threats have been made with respect to attempted television buys of ads by organizations like the NRA.

On the small scale, my neighbors’ McCain sign has been stolen from his yard every other day for a week now.  And an Obama campaigner cussed at my wife at our own door when my wife politely told her that we were not interested in her speech.

Meanwhile, the continously repeated accusations of threats by McCain supporters turn out to be fraudulent.

The tactic of labeling every single criticism of Obama as “racist” is shown in a later thread here by David.  That alone shows how unacceptable 4 years of an Obama administration would be.

So frankly, I find your commentary to be utter nonsense.

Older photo of one member of Obama’s “Posse”

I am surprised that you didn’t throw in Jerry Rubin, Abbie Hoffman, Eldridge Cleaver, Angela Davis and Angelina Jolie, no matter if they are dead or not.

When I made the comment in response to Robin R, about his use of “Obama’s thugs”; I had no idea that it was already in the psyche of general public. I wonder if it was the inspiration for Ashley Todd and other vandals who are smart enough to use it to misdirect law enforcement and dupe some of McCain supporters.