Nu uh. People need to realise the Nazi party was NEVER Socialist. Hitler supported capitalism, and instead of NATIONALISING industry, he merely got its support. Nazi Germany was a self contained capitalist state, with private German companies having a monopoly. Hitler was an autocratic dictator who hated Communism and kept Germany's class system solid.

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/analysis2.html

This site indicates Hitlers political position. A right of centre extreme autocratic leader.

Posted by: FilthyCommie at September 21, 2004 12:08 PM

Filthy, spare us, please.

Posted by: Patrick at September 21, 2004 12:34 PM

And who wrote this into his 1920 manifesto:

9. All citizens of the State shall be equal as regards rights and duties.

10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. The activities of the individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but must proceed within the frame of the community and be for the general good.

Therefore we demand:

11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in life and property, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as a crime against the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits whether in assets or material.

13. We demand the nationalization of businesses which have been organized into cartels.

14. We demand that all the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out.

15. We demand extensive development of provision for old age.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle-class, the immediate communalization of department stores which will be rented cheaply to small businessmen, and that preference shall be given to small businessmen for provision of supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

17. We demand a land reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to confiscate from the owners without compensation any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

Yeah, there's a good free market capitalist for you...

Posted by: zombyboy at September 21, 2004 12:38 PM

'Filthy, spare us, please.'

Ive said why he was right wing, and directly you to a poltical compass, which shows his position and points out why this so in the Q/A section. But yeah, whatever. Its a fact Nazi Germany and Hitler were right wing.

'9. All citizens of the State shall be equal as regards rights and duties. '

Come on Z, do you REALLY believe this?

I think Hitler should of added a small print at the end of this one, as follows:

APART from Jews, homosexuals, Communists, Socialists, the disabled, gypsies, Slavs, non Germanic people...........

I urge you to look at the date this was written. Virtually non of these things you mentioned happened it Capitalist Nazi Germany. The Communist system in East Germany CLAIMED to be a Democracy. Does this make it the case?

'12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in life and property, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as a crime against the people. '

This is the funniest bit. German companies, mostly notably VOLKSWAGEN profited from the war no end. I think this manifesto should be used as a base point for laughing at dictators, not a desperate attempt to try and label Hitler as left wing.

Posted by: FilthyCommie at September 21, 2004 01:01 PM

Calling Naziism capitalism indicates either a profound ignorance of Naziism, or of capitalism, or (and in your case most likely) both.

Posted by: McGehee at September 21, 2004 02:31 PM

Z-boy posted the entire list. You pull out two, to remove them from their context, to illustrate your point. Fine.

My bigger problem is with your assumption that Z-boy was intending to show that the Nazis are/were left wing by indicating that they supported equal right for all citizens. The implication here is that a conservative government would never say such things. After all, the right wing is naturally opposed to equality for citizens. It's funny that you would assume that the equal rights statement was merely papering over a much more insidious "right wing" agenda. That's funny indeed. However, what is disturbing is that you likely have never considered the the unfounded and prejudiced assumption that the agenda of left wing is somehow more in keeping with the promotion of INDIVIDUAL rights.

Posted by: Patrick at September 21, 2004 02:33 PM

'Calling Naziism capitalism indicates either a profound ignorance of Naziism, or of capitalism, or (and in your case most likely) both.'

Calling Nazism socialism indicates a profound ignorance of Nazism, (Not: One I) or of socialism, or (and in your case most likely) both.

Ive linked to a valid political compass, what have you given me?

'Z-boy posted the entire list. You pull out two, to remove them from their context, to illustrate your point. Fine. '

Id do it to all of them, as virtually non of them applied to Nazi Germany in practise. Most importantly the fact that Germany was never Socialist, as industry wasnt nationalised, and market competition within Germany was kept open.

'The implication here is that a conservative government would never say such things. '

Was Nazi Germany in place in 1920? I rest my case. My point is, nothing Hitler said here actually came into existance.

'However, what is disturbing is that you likely have never considered the the unfounded and prejudiced assumption that the agenda of left wing is somehow more in keeping with the promotion of INDIVIDUAL rights. '

Collectivism is individual right?

Allow me to relay a nice bit of information from the linked site. I urge anyone to take their time and read it, its not long. Then if possible, come up with some kind of retort based on the policies of Hitler and Nazi Germany.

Economically, Hitler was well to the right of Stalin. Post-war investigations led to a number of revelations about the cosy relationship between German corporations and the Reich. No such scandals subsequently surfaced in Russia, because Stalin had totally squashed the private sector. By contrast, once in power, the Nazis achieved rearmament through deficit spending. One of our respondents has correctly pointed out that they actively discouraged demand increases because they wanted infrastructure investment. Under the Reich, corporations were largely left to govern themselves, with the incentive that if they kept prices under control, they would be rewarded with government contracts. Hardly a socialist economic agenda !

We wonder if respondents who insist on uncritically accepting the Nazis' self-definition of 'socialist' would be quite as eager to believe that the German Democratic Republic was democratic.

Incidentally, on fascism, no less an authority than Benito Mussolini declared: Fascism should more appropriately be called CORPORATISM, as it is a merge of state and CORPORATE power

Posted by: FilthyCommie at September 21, 2004 04:38 PM

FC, aside from Zombyboy's examples, there is a more general reason why the Nazis didn't exactly call themselves "Nationalkapitalisten." It's because they considered themselves to be exactly what their name implied: a coalition between nationalists and socialists.

It's all well and good to point out that the Nazis' call for equality for all citizens did not extend to Jews, gays, Slavs, etc., but that merely underscores teh nationalist component of their ideology; it doesn't change the fact that they were also socialists. If socialists couldn't be racists, Stalin's Union of Soviet Socialist Republics must not have socialist, either. Please.

Posted by: Xrlq at September 21, 2004 05:49 PM

FC: If you are going to correct the spelling of others, you should probably make sure that you don't have so many spelling errors of your own.

Posted by: Jerry at September 22, 2004 07:03 AM

Leftist logic: Hitler was evil, "Right Wing = Evil", thus, Hitler is Right Wing.
It doesn't matter that Stalin had a better relationship with Hitler than he did with any of the western leaders like Churchill and Roosevelt. It doesn't matter that Stalin's treatement of Jews and homosexuals was identical to Hitler's, simply because Hitler killed Jews and homosexuals he must be Right Wing.
But "Communism" was a great idea that wasn't implemented correctly, so Stalin gets a pass.

It's time idiot leftists/liberals realized that the Right Wing is far more tolerant than they are. We have almost all the guns, and if we showed the same intolerance to diversity of thought as they demonstrate at places like Berkeley, they'd all be dead.

Posted by: Nathan at September 22, 2004 08:59 AM

'it doesn't change the fact that they were also socialists.'

I urge you to get a better understanding of socialism. Hitler didnt grasp any socialist policies, as he failed to do the most fundamental thing. Abolish the private sector, and strive for a classless society. Not only this, Hitler persecuted Communists, and the 'soft' democratic Socialists within Germany. This, combined with his massive deficit spending to encourage rearmament show that in practise he was never a Socialist.

'If socialists couldn't be racists, Stalin's Union of Soviet Socialist Republics must not have socialist, either. '

Stalin was a Socialist. There were NO private companies within the USSR, unlike in Nazi Germany - where Hitler supported private business.

'Leftist logic: Hitler was evil, "Right Wing = Evil", thus, Hitler is Right Wing.'

This is such utter BS. Ive just provided a multitude of things saying why he wasnt left wing. You just havnt read any, clearly. Its recognised the world over that Hitler was an extreme right wing nationalist. Quit lying, i never once used your suggested logic.

'It doesn't matter that Stalin had a better relationship with Hitler than he did with any of the western leaders like Churchill and Roosevelt.'

Wow, seems like history is another one of your weak points! Stalin and Hitlers relationship was one based on mutual interest in Poland. Hitler despised Communism, and Stalin never trusted Hitler. Their pact was a NON AGGRESSION pact, not a military alliance, in the case of the USSR's relationship with Great Britain and the US. Stalin and Hitler never even met. Boy i get so sick and tired of pointing out basic facts to pre-school cretin.

'It doesn't matter that Stalin's treatement of Jews and homosexuals was identical to Hitler's, simply because Hitler killed Jews and homosexuals he must be Right Wing.'

Ding ding ding! Another area Nathan knows nothing about! The USSR! If you did, you would know much of the Bolshevik, and later the Soviet government was made up of many Jews. Leon Trotsky was orginally a Jew. Again ill say, ive pointed out many reasons that Hitler was right wing. Nathans logic - Because Stalin and Hitler both oppressed and murdered their own people, they are both left wing.

'so Stalin gets a pass.'

What the hell? I condemn Stalin. But sure, as a lefty, i must secretly love him!

'It's time idiot leftists/liberals realized that the Right Wing is far more tolerant than they are. '

What utter garbage. For starters, you are drifting off topic as i never suggested anything in regards to the 'right wings' level of tolerance, however low or high it might be.

'We have almost all the guns, and if we showed the same intolerance to diversity of thought as they demonstrate at places like Berkeley, they'd all be dead.'

Heres some Right wing tolerance for you Nathan. Clearly every right winger was/is tolerant. (Excuding Hitler)

"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people." - September 1970, regarding the recent election of the socialist Salvador Allende as president of Chile.

Posted by: FilthyCommie at September 22, 2004 12:02 PM

FC, it's not that Nathan is lacking in knowledge of history; rather, that you are lacking in humility.

Posted by: Rae at September 22, 2004 12:34 PM

Ding ding ding! Another area Nathan knows nothing about! The USSR! If you did, you would know much of the Bolshevik, and later the Soviet government was made up of many Jews. Leon Trotsky was orginally a Jew.

A Jew who was expelled from the party and forced into exile for being the wrong kind of communist, and ultimately murdered by Soviet agents abroad. Oh wait, did I say "Soviet?" I meant Nazi. Only right wing National Socialist capitalists kill Jews and communists, right?

Posted by: Xrlq at September 22, 2004 01:09 PM

'A Jew who was expelled from the party and forced into exile for being the wrong kind of communist, and ultimately murdered by Soviet agents abroad.'

Expelled from the party by Stalin, a man i condemn. Trotsky was a hero of the Russian revolution, and backed by a lot of key party members. Stalin won the power struggle and expelled Trotsky as he was a major opponent. It had nothing to do with his religion.

'Only right wing National Socialist capitalists kill Jews and communists, right?'

Nathan suggested the Soviet regime undertook Jewish genocide. I pointed out this wasnt the case. Historical facts my friend.

'FC, it's not that Nathan is lacking in knowledge of history; rather, that you are lacking in humility.'

Nathan was off on several historical facts. If you want to challenge me on anything i said, feel free :).

Posted by: FilthyCommie at September 22, 2004 04:34 PM

Rae: running away from computer screaming.....

Posted by: Rae at September 23, 2004 10:51 PM