Wesley Clark: One more reason to believe that the Democratic party is in complete disarray.

And one more reason to believe that they probably won't win.

Q:You are in an elevator, going up, with Saddam and Osama...you have a gun and two bullets...what do you do?

A: Hold your fire...you've heard Michael Moore is somewhere on the top floor (and one round just isn't reliable enough).

PS....I really f*&£ing hate that man.

While I don't actually advocate the shooting of Michael Moore (although muzzling, if possible, should be considered), that was still the best damned laugh I've had all day...

Besides, most guns aren't chambered big enough to bring down the really BIG game...

You're all pretty silly. And likely just jealous that Wesley Clark actually has a meaningful education, unlike some other presidential candidates. ;-)

Thank you for a meaningful comment, John.

Man this article is really scary, and i think your hate reactions are fucking insane.

Dont you know you just have to turn off the TV if you dont want to listen what the guy says. You've got the right to say anything you want, and the right to ignore anything you want, no need for muzzling or killing.

Zombyboy,

You refer to Michael Moore as "lying, annoying, self-promoting" and a "publicity whore" ... I don't see how self-promotion is a problem, given that he's a professional pundit. He's annoying? I suppose that's a matter of taste. He's a liar? Prove it.

Moore is not lying (obviously) when he says that "those in opposition to the war were 'bullied.'" What have you been reading the last two years - frontpagemag or the National Review? Maybe you didn't notice.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Ashcroft lie just about every time they open their mouths.

Remember this BIG LIE from March?

"I determine that ... acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001."

Read it for yourself:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030319-1.html

Dan, no one was bullied. I read a cross spectrum of lit from the Village Voice and Mother Jones to American Spectator and national Review. So (obviously) he is lying.

As for other lies, just take a look at Bowling for Columbine. The thing is riddled with lies.

As for the rest, what the hell is your point?

Jesus, Dan, give up the weak attempt at commentary--it isn't really worth my time.

Speaking of Moore, do you guys know if anyone has done a point-by-point disection of "Bowling for Columbine". Most of Moore's positions that I've seen appear to be emotional and reactionary. Intuitively, it's not hard to find fault with his logic, but it would be nice to have a fact by fact rebuttal of his points.

Bellesiles is much easier to debate because he actually makes up his facts. A look at the history and sales records of Remington shoots his main premise full of holes, not to mention the sheer numbers of old Remingtons that show up at auction and in peoples collections. Moore, on the other hand, relies more on opinion and sensationalism, which is a little harder to debate since it offers few facts to actually challenge.

As far as lies, Michael Moore openly accepts(and lays to rest) anyone who accuses his films of being fictitious. Also, Michael Moore is in favor of taxing the rich, which, in case you haven't noticed, is himself(you don't have the number 1 book for 53 weeks i.e Stupid White Men and not became rich), as well as all those, what was it, "damn rich successful people", oh yeah and by the way, he is Caucasion as well...

For anyone that is interested, the website for sparring with the patriot Michael Moore is MichaelMoore.com. He has stated publicly that any debate brought to him as to the factuality of Bowling For Columbine will be met with clear and true rebuttel. So, that being said, anyone with the balls should check it out

Michael Moore is straight up lying about the tax cuts for the "rich". I myself have see me taxes drop on my paycheck and received my tax cut check, and I make less than $40,000 per year. So I doubt that I made the cut because of the family millions or such.

His Bowling for Columbine may present facts however those facts are arranged and bent in a way to present his flawed perspective. For example, he ignores the fact the people openly murdered each other for centuries before the invention of the gun.

Michael Moore is no champion of the truth, democracy, peace, art or anything else. He is only a master of lying with statistics.

And to mention his book stupid white men? Well there's a reason it's in the humor section at Barnes and Noble.

Important!!! Why the rich will never pay taxes!!

Michael Moore is also a master at what is often referred to as "class warfare". I call it manipulating people's emotions. Oh Oh Oh, tax the big rich corporations! Because they're rich but you're not. Here's the problem: What happens if GM's profit margin is threatened by tax increases or anything? They will either layoff employees, raise prices on their products made at lower quality, cut employee benefits and pay or perhaps move production somewhere more cost effective. Gee I think Michael Moore made this point in Roger and Me.

If I may offer one correction, "Stupid White Men" may be in the humor section of Barnes and Noble because Bush and Co. really are so inept that it has become humerous. However, this book and "Dude Where's my Counrty?" are now featured at the front of Barnes and Noble next to Dave Rumbaugh's book on how Democrats are attacking Christians. By the way, anyone in Politics knows that fact are only made true if you scew them in your direction, and it is based on this that Bush was appointed President. (Katherine Harris has admitted the faked results by not allowing nearly 90,000 African Americans to vote). I i digress, however, in order to keep it friendly, as I am enjoyong this discussion immensely1

Well.

The sad fact of the matter is that Bush has enormously compromised the security of the USA by diverting resources away from hunting Al Qaeda, that attacked the USA, to pre-emptively attacking Iraq, which didn't attack us and posed no threat to us.

Not only has Bush lost all focus in the fight against terrorism, he is also responsible for a massive US financed recruiting drive Al Qaeda has benefited from as a direct result of our imbecilic little war based on nothing but lies and deceit.

Saddam Hussein was NOT linked to 9/11, had NO ties to Al Qaeda, and did NOT pose a threat to the USA !

Outside of the USA, practically absolutely nobody believed those totally ludicrous claims by Bush in the first place.

What we have to make people understand is that the Bush administration did not happen across this 'bad intelligence' on Iraq by chance. They went looking for it. Aggressively and insatiably. They were eating bad intelligence with a spoon, greedily, two-fisted. And when the CIA said, "Well, look, the only bad intelligence we had left was SO bad it had started to stink the place up, so we threw it out," they went around back to the dumpster where it was rotting and got down on their hands and knees to lap that bad intelligence out of a puddle.

Why? Because they needed bad intelligence to get their war started - because there was no legitimate reason to fight it.

This is what people have to understand. This administration was not "misled" into war with Saddam Hussein. They wanted this war. They wanted it so badly they were willing to alienate the entire international community, squander the goodwill that the world felt toward us after 9/11, kill thousands of Iraqis and hundreds of American soldiers, make America an even bigger and more attractive target for international terrorism than it ever had been before, and guarantee that for an indefinite amount of time, we will be sinking so much of our tax revenue into rebuilding Iraq that we will not be able to pay for anything at home. And if they wanted the war badly to risk all of this, of course they wanted it badly enough to lie.

Bush is the biggest threat to US security, freedom, civil rights and judicial due process to have ever hit the US.

We need to get rid of him, and fast !

Well spoken, my friend! I enjoyed reading your comments so much that I would like to hear more, like for instance, your take on Dean/Kucinitch in 'O4, or perhaps a Nader Resurrection?

No. 1: You can't blast Michael Moore (or Al Franken, for that matter), without blasting Bill O'Reilly and Ann Coulter. Each has equal influence, each is prone toward rhetoric. They're cheerleaders, and we need them.

No. 2: Wes Clark is not a symbol of Democratic disarray. He is a symbol of Democratic hope. Karl Rove will have trouble with Clark, for he is the only candidate who can beat Bush on his core issues: patriotism, national security, and not being a whiny Democrat.

So, if left-leaning liberals (not an oxymoron) are mad at Moore or Clark -- so be it. Clark is Gore with a personality, and credentials ideally suited to 2004. AND HE CAN WIN.

I see another Clinton (w/out the sex scandals) in the works. Go see where Clinton was in January, 1992. (Hint: Tsongas was kicking his can.)

No. 1: You can't blast Michael Moore (or Al Franken, for that matter), without blasting Bill O'Reilly and Ann Coulter. Each has equal influence, each is prone toward rhetoric. They're cheerleaders, and we need them.

No. 2: Wes Clark is not a symbol of Democratic disarray. He is a symbol of Democratic hope. Karl Rove will have trouble with Clark, for he is the only candidate who can beat Bush on his core issues: patriotism, national security, and not being a whiny Democrat.

So, if left-leaning liberals (not an oxymoron) are mad at Moore or Clark -- so be it. Clark is Gore with a personality, and credentials ideally suited to 2004. AND HE CAN WIN.

I see another Clinton (w/out the sex scandals) in the works. Go see where Clinton was in January, 1992. (Hint: Tsongas was kicking his can.)

Michael Moore endorses a 15 minute Democrat, a 15 minute Democrat who supports RayGun's murdering School Of America's, job stealing, wage reducing, slave creating NAFTA, and the death penalty that kills as many innocent people as guilty, or more if you live in Illinois.

Not one more penny of mine will you receive Michael Moore. You've exposed yourself as being no better than the slimy republicans you bash around. You're a hypocrite, and now that you've fully exposed yourself as another fake Dem who shows his true colors after he gets the cash....why not be honest and name your next book MOORE BULLSHIT when you attack others for selling out.....just like you.

You're a traitor Michael Moore

Lance Del Goebel

Michael Moore was at an event with Wes Clark. Michael Moore insulted President Bush, and Clark just stood there and grinned. Is he that desperate for votes? Any inclination this retired soldier might have had toward Clark's campaign just went out the window. If the general is as smart as he claims to be, he should realize that when he accepts the support of Moore and those like Moore he's shooting himself in the foot.

Michael Moore is a bloated toad...

Dennis Kucinitch's head is shaped like a prune...

I don't agree with Michael Moore supporting Wesley Clark. Moore's support of this international war criminal takes the shine off more than a decades work by Moore standing up for regular people, against the corporate interests, the politicians owned by the corporations, the media owned by the corporations, and the mindless sheep like Zombyboy who spew forth right wing hate as programmed by the corporate reichs propaganda ministers.

That being said.....

OF COURSE THOSE OF US WHO STOOD AGAINST THE WAR WERE BULLIED. I WAS THERE...WE WERE THREATENED AND BEATEN BY POLICE IN WASHINGTON DC and CHICAGO...FOR NOTHING...WITHOUT BREAKING ANY LAWS. IN WASHINGTON DC THE POLICE RIOTED AND ATTACKED US WITHOUT PROVOCATION...AND NOBODY REPORTED IT....IN CHICAGO THE POLICE SURROUNDED THE WHOLE PROTEST AND STARTED TAPPING THEIR NIGHT STICKS AGAINST THEIR ARMORED RIOT GEAR OUTFITS, WITHOUT PROVOCATION...CALLING US "TRAITORS" and "COMMUNISTS" and "ANTI-AMERICAN MOTHER FUCKERS" and "YOU'RE DEAD"...POLICE....SCARING WOMEN AND CHILDREN TO DEATH..FOR NOTHING.

Zombyboy, people like you make me sick. If you don't know about a subject, don't speak upon it as an expert. What a sad excuse, and all too common excuse for an American you are

Lance Del Goebel
LanceGoebel@direcway.com

Wesley Clark has bombed people and animals
on 3 or 4 continents (Asia's Vietnam, Europe's
Kosovo, America's Waco Texas.)

He has taken money from several war profiteers.

He has been on boards of war profiteers such
as Axiom.

He nearly caused WW3 threatening the Russians
.. demanding they leave Kosovo as he wiped
out the last socialist army in Europe.

He is supported by the Clintons who are doing
secret warmonger missions for Bush.

He is the owner of 20 guns, and like Cheney,
Bush and Kerry a hunter.

(Cheney killed 81 birds in 1 day in December.
Bush killed 5 in January. Kerry killed 2 last
year. Clark does not like his hunting
publicized.)

Clark is a Republican who voted for Reagan
and Bush and switched so that the military
would have candidates in both parties.

Whad up kids?

has anyone heard the latest as to when the polls for edwards,Kerry or Dean would be released for general consumption. By the way, I now go on record as saying Fuvk Michael Moore, he sold out and he is full of shjit as he bases opinions on opinions rather than facts. The problem is that real people think that these opinions are actual truths. In closing, Kerry is a military asshole and I will happily vote Nader again, with or without the support of Michael Moore.

In Dharma,

George W. Death

All of the people who are insulting Gen. Clarke must not understand what it is like in the military. Coming from a former soldier of the 101st and one who knew many under the command of the General, I would say that the propaganda like that of no hunt coalition is worthless and is in need of some serious criticism.

of course the general owned guns, he was a soldier.

he voted for republicans because he was in the military and would have benefitted from it.

The clintons are NOT doing secret warmonger missions for bush you crazy paranoid freak.

Military assholes are the people who keep this country safe whether they follow the orders of a someone who was digging for a war or not.

Clarke is not the only person who has bombed people and animals on a number of continents. We had at least seventeen generals during WWII that bombed at least that many countries and their innocent populations but that was overlooked because of the holocaust. Oh, wait... there was a holocaust going on in KOSOVO.

Of course Clarke took money from war profiteers, he probably knew a lot of the contractors and needed money for his campaign, the precious clintons took money from other countries and Bill was an excellent president.

so shut your mouth if you dont know what you're talking about. thank you.

PS. for those of you who think that Clinton was a bad president because he cheated on his wife then you need to reread the job description of the president... nowhere does it say he has to remain faithful to his wife, it doesnt even say he has to have a wife. Just because he was a bad man doesnt make him a bad president.

Bush burn in hell along with reagan. bigger liars and murderers tham michael moore will every be. Moore fights injustice of war and corporate greed. presidents lie to kill children for power

i think michael moore is a piece of crap. unamerican! let his ass go to france where he belongs. lets also just show the negative things that go on in iraq forget the positive things that our troops are over there doing. oh and lets not forget that bush is cleaning up clinton s mess. he had his chance to take out both of the assh*lesand didn t do anything but pay them off. now that bush has taken office a man who is willing to take care of things insted of sitting back and getting he*d from some fat ass intern dike. o by the way lets vote for keery i love having moore and moore of my tax money going to degenaret nonworking drug dealing wefare getting child baring no good theives. i forgot those are the people tht vote for the demacrates!!!!!!!

Oooohhh go live in France, what a give away! Unless you agree with my political views you arent truly american/russian/german/chinese/chilean.... when people start talking like that dictatorship isnt far round the corner.

I live in Britain and looking at America we cant believe whats going on over there, i hope to god Kerry wins coz Bush and his clique are stripping your democracy away bit by bit.

And Steve do you really believe that war was about anything other than billions of barrells of oil? do you think America has the right to go anywhere it chooses and take over? Thats called imperialism, mate, we tried it and it didnt win us any friends. in fact people kept shooting at us and having inconvenient revolutions and committing terrorist outrages against our civilians... of course it was the problem was they were uncivilised barbarians, it wasnt anything WE were doing.

your government's leading you to a big fall.

Steve, I think you should have your own tv show because everything you said is the truth. Too bad other people are living in fantasy worlds instead of supporting the USA and our troops.

ok che you have no point. we arent even messing with the oil! you know we have bailed your people out and the french so many times with money! and you did not loose something important to you. you weren t attacted on your soil. if you ask me every country should be involved in this war because that attact was against every1 that was in that building and on the planes. not just americans. if keery gets elected we as americans are screwed. he can give a shit about anything but his money. demicrates are tax hiking money grobbing assholes. this is clintons fault o and guess what he was a demacrat! bush is a stand up guy!! clinton was a pussy afraid of what people would think of him. and tony blair is right there next to bush because he has balls! demacrates like to give had outs and us republicans are stuck paying the bill becauses of increased taxes . i am making more money under bush then clinton due to taxes. and another thing all you people that think bush is killing our children well think again it was they re choice to join the milatary. so they know they had a chance to go to war. that is why people are still joining today. thaty want the world to be safer. and laura thank you i could go on all night about this but will not waste any more of my time

so che i see that you must agree with me since you have nothing else too say. just remember 1 thing no oil!!!!!

You republican scum are all the same, you die as ignorant as you were born. You are just afraid that finnally someone came along to protest your racist money hungry wars. All the while you fill american citizens whith fear on the news. Ask yourself this: if media didn't show every terrorist attack ever done against us, would terrorism as big of a deal? No. Terrorism is 80% promotion. Terrorist are now arming themselves with cameras so they can tape thier crimes. And what does the stupid capitalist republican owned media do? They broadcast it too the world!! The terrorist are laughing while rejoicing that you scum are soo stupid. But when we want a show like nighline to honor the soldiers who have died, you scumfuckers go and shut it down, because it "hurt the troops" and "lower morale". I will tell you what it will do, it will get people to think about the sad state of the country, and maybe think before we go waging war. All you fucking republican shit do is just stick a flag on your usv and call it being patriotic, and at that instant, i wish you would die. You are all unpatriotic bastards, to america and the world. All you do is laugh at liberals, but they are just like the people who brought us freedom and equality. Let me type copy and paste a story:Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the dark)

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.

He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day) Joe agrees, “We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have”.
And after all this you wage your senseless wars, deny certain citizens thier american rights, lie to us through media, take our money away so millionares can have another car, deny that you have taken our health care away.
And at the end of the day, you sit down without one ounce of guilt. You still think clinton is so horrible when your own redneck president along with his friend, dick, steal money from you through enron (cheney was the ceo) and lead you to a war on mass destruction, because saddam has connection to osama ( they actually hate each other, osama called saddam a socialist infidel). No mass weapons, no connection.
I realize how long this article is and that republicans( most being rednecks) can't read this much. If i managed to get one person to realize thier errors then it was worth it. See i don't hate republicans who don't know what it means to conservative, but all you now know, and if you decide to be racist assholes anyway, then you do deserve to burn in hell.

bastards

bastards

hey rocco
you hit the nail on the head with that long story! it is the demacrats fault that america has turned to shit! because you liberials more hard working americans lost there jobs . public trnsporation caused car plants too close there doors in mich! o lets not forget the steel factorys in pittsburg. but once again it is the republicans fault right? dumb ass do your homework befor sending in some left wing shit like that all you deamcrats make me sike. all liers with no morals!!!!!!

liberials are the scum more so the liberial lawyer. hey demacrats that like to talk shit about us republicans i have a ( ? ) for you why does kerry have 57 of his 59 companies over seas? how do you expect us to believe that he planned to bring back jobs to the usa when he wont bring his back? it is a good thing he lost. are milatary would have beed fucked! how do you turn power to the un? just shows he s a pussy and is scared to stand up for our hard woking country! liberials open your eyes and get off welfare and gat a fucking job and stop milking hard working, moral suporting men and women of th usa! not the un!!! i would love to get an answer back for this 1 but i wont because you will see that i am right!